Olivia Rhee

Brittney Morris’ Slay is a bold, timely and hard-hitting young adult novel about 17-year-old Kiera Johnson, the creator and developer of SLAY, an online video game for black individuals. Slay follows Kiera’s journey toward self-discovery and acceptance as she struggles to keep the SLAY universe alive amid violence, criticism and hatred from the outside world. We reached out to Morris to discuss her inspiration for Slay, the importance of representation and the role Black Panther played in the creation of her debut novel.

What inspired you to create the world of SLAY, an online video game wherein black players are able to duel, communicate and connect?
I was inspired to write Slay after seeing Black Panther on opening night. The minute I left the theater, I was wishing someone would create a Wakanda Simulator video game. Since I’ve never programmed a video game before, I thought writing a book about one would be the next best thing!

Can you tell us more about why Black Panther was so inspiring?
Sure! Walking into that theater was my first experience walking into a room full of Black people and feeling total unconditional acceptance, regardless of the music I’d heard, how I was dressed, how I spoke or whatever other impossible criteria I’d inflicted on myself before allowing myself to feel “Black enough.” I knew the minute I left Wakanda that I had to go back. So I came up with the idea of a girl who gets to go to “Wakanda” whenever she wants, and thus, Slay was born!

What advice would you give to readers who, like Kiera, are struggling to balance their identity and societal expectations?
Question anyone who tries to tell you what your identity should mean, whatever it is. Black, gay, transgender, disabled, whatever. You are in the driver’s seat. You decide what to include in your identity and what not to. If you’re Black but you’ve never seen Coming to America, don’t feel like you have to (but consider it, because it’s objectively hilarious). Societal expectations often stem from stereotypes. Don’t be afraid to not fit them. And surround yourself (online or in real life) with people who support your existence, however you present it.

How is representation important in YA lit, and how do you tackle the issue of representation as a writer?
Representation is important for all ages, but it’s especially important for kids and teens as they absorb the world’s expectations. The majority of my childhood heroes were cishet, white, neurotypical, able-bodied men, so that’s what I thought a “hero” looked like. I knew I wanted Slay to be about Black experiences worldwide, and how we’re all heroes of our own stories, and I couldn’t do that without intersectionality. Slay includes people of several genders, skin tones, languages, family structures and socioeconomic circumstances, because all of those things impact one’s own definition of Blackness.

Kiera also has problems connecting with her parents and her younger sister, Steph. Why did you choose to focus so heavily on the development of Kiera’s relationship with her family?
As a Black woman, I come from a lineage of wisdom and resilience. The political climate in which American Black people operate has changed each and every decade, so every generation has a vastly different frame of reference for what it means to be Black. I wanted to capture those intergenerational differences between Kiera and her parents. Charles and Lorette come from a generation in which code-switching was not only the norm in professional spaces but also expected of them, lest they miss out on employment opportunities, etc. They want Kiera to have the best chance at success, so logically that means encouraging her to bury any trace of slang, wear new and clean clothes and not be too loud. But Kiera defines success differently, and she believes there’s room in her honors-student way of life for a little AAVE [African American Vernacular English]. Kiera’s sister, Steph, on the other hand, sees their parents’ conservative outlook and high-tails it in the opposite direction, asserting that it’s high time Black people demanded equality and respect and operated unafraid to take up space. It’s possible for Kiera, Steph and her parents to exist in the same loving household, even with such fundamental differences between them, and I wanted to show how such a balance could be functional and healthy.
 

In the world of SLAY, players are able to connect with other Black individuals from all around the world. What do you think Kiera and other SLAY players are able to gain from this global connection?
As an American kid, I used to think all Black people lived in either Africa or America, depending on whether our ancestors had been kidnapped by slavers or not. (How fascinating an echo chamber the American education system is.) I think if SLAY existed when I was a kid, someplace where I could’ve been in chat rooms or MMOs with Black people worldwide, I would’ve realized how prolific we are, how varied our experiences and how there’s a place for me among them.

"Societal expectations often stem from stereotypes. Don’t be afraid to not fit them."

How do current events affect or inspire your writing, if at all?
Every time #SayTheirName trends and every time there’s another “Barbecue Becky,” I get inspired to write about our experiences all over again. If people can’t understand when we say that police presence is terrifying, or that shows like “When They See Us” need to come with trigger warnings or that white people who call the police unnecessarily are as dangerous to us as murderers, maybe they’ll understand if they see a story like that playing out in a virtual landscape, or in a speculative contemporary world with superpowers and access to the ancestral plane. Maybe they’ll believe fiction. And maybe Black people will enjoy the relief of having our stories and history told through a different lens than pain and unrequited patience every Black History Month.

In SLAY, players are able to create and customize their own video game characters with names, unique clothing and physical characteristics. If you were a SLAY player, what would your character look like?
First, I’d be 5’8”, because my real-life self is 5’2” and I’m still not over it. Second, I’d have a twist-out down to my waist, because who doesn’t want waist-length natural hair that NEVER requires detangling? A mermaid tail would be tempting, but I’d also want to wear a huge ball gown, and those aren’t really compatible. But then I’d also want to be a Black samurai with white body paint. I don’t know, I’d be that person with an inventory that’s 90% clothing, 5% weapons and 5% crafting materials. I’d be someone different every day.

In many ways, this book is the story of Kiera’s personal growth and journey toward self-discovery. In what ways did your personal story and teenage years affect your writing?
I’ve always loved video games, and I’ve always felt overwhelmed by the weight of what the world expects me to be as a Black woman. Kiera’s journey to figuring out what Blackness means for her closely resembles my own. I think as teens, it’s already tough figuring out what the world expects from you, and if you’re Black, there’s a whole new world of expectations, with centuries of arguments behind every one. So I thought, why not explore what it means to be Black, what it means to weigh the expectations of family, friends, “woke” people that you trust and your own beliefs about it, via something fun? Like video games!

What are you working on next?
Being a Black teen in America today means living with the threat of future violence in police brutality and the school-to-prison pipeline, and living in the shadow of a past full of oppression and pain, while somehow navigating the present. My next project explores the life of just one teen living under these circumstances and how he handles the societal pressures placed on Black men, especially teenage Black men. I’m very excited about it!

This interview was conducted by BookPage and sponsored by Simon Pulse. All editorial views are those of BookPage alone and reflect our policy of editorial independence and impartiality.

Abigail Hing Wen’s debut novel, Loveboat, Taipei, is an effervescent blend of self-discovery and romance, set over the course of one unforgettable summer. It’s the story of Ever Wong, whose parents send her to Taiwan for a cultural immersion program nicknamed “Loveboat” by attendees because of its notoriety for matchmaking. We spoke to the author about how her own teenage experiences with a Loveboat-esque program informed the book, developing characters, battling stereotypes and her hopes for her first novel.

How did your own personal experiences influence the writing and storytelling process of Loveboat, Taipei?
The Loveboat experience was such a unique and iconic one in the Asian American community. I knew I wanted to write a story about it. But it took me a while to figure out who needed to go on this trip. I discussed it at length with my husband, who also attended Loveboat a few years before I did, trying to get to the heart of the experience. We came to the conclusion that it was about discovering identity in all its facets—cultural heritage, certainly, but also a coming-of-age in such important formative years.

I’d grown up in Ohio, not always proud of my Asian American heritage. I was even less familiar with all the wonderful parts that came with it. On Loveboat, I was amazed to meet Asian Americans my age who were as enthusiastic about scallion pancakes and Dragon’s beard candy as my Ohio friends were about pizza and donuts. Instead of feeling ashamed of non-English speaking relations, Loveboaters were excited to visit families in the traditional Hutong.

I met all sorts of personalities: funny, quiet, timid, outrageous, gentle, angry, bitter, even snobby and exclusive, a surprise to me. It was both shocking and refreshing to witness rebellious Asian American teens getting demerits and getting drunk. They broke every model minority stereotype in the book.

“It was both shocking and refreshing to witness rebellious Asian American teens getting demerits and getting drunk. They broke every model minority stereotype in the book.”

Most magical of all in this experience: I felt included for the first time. The sweetest thing someone said was, “That’s so Abby!” I had never felt so seen before, which was exactly what Jane Lee on my HarperCollins team said about my book when I first met her. She’d read Loveboat, Taipei three times. I hadn’t put it into words until that moment, but that was what I wanted for this novel. To make others feel seen. To share with others a bit of that magical transformation I’d experienced myself.

Even now, as people begin to respond to the novel, I’m growing in my appreciation of what it meant to have this grounding experience. I’m realizing I’m so much stronger for it.

What kind of research or preparation did you do in addition to your own personal experiences?
After I wrote a draft of the book, I visited Taipei and took a bus tour of the island, similar to the one I took as a student on the program. This immersive reminder helped me get into the heads of my main characters as I connected with things they would connect with. For example, while there, I ran into foods I associated with my childhood and parents, like a huge platter of fried eggs. I knew that Ever would also have such moments on her trip.

In addition, two Taiwanese American friends read and commented on the novel: Judy Hung Liang and Chienlan Hsu-Hoffman. I later interviewed a number of Loveboat alumni.

ALSO IN BOOKPAGE: Read our review of Loveboat, Taipei.

Much of Ever’s internal conflict is motivated by the tension between her personal passions and her desire to meet expectations placed on her by others or to follow the rules. When you were a teen, where did you fall on the rule-following/rule-breaking, what-I-want/what-others-want spectrum? Do you have any advice for teens who find themselves sharing Ever’s internal conflict?
Great question! My dad came to the United States when he was 13, so he was a little more Americanized than my Asian American friends’ parents. He wasn’t a typical dad—we would often negotiate rules, and he would let me win if I was convincing. It taught me an important lesson early on—that I could disagree and prevail if I had a sensible idea. I think that freedom made me a little less rebellious than some of my peers.

But I really felt a weight of expectation from others in the community. Some of that was supportive, but some of that felt like a cage.

As for advice for teens, wow, this is hard. I wish I could say talk it out honestly with your parents, but not everyone is in a position to do that. I would say—take baby steps and pick your battles. Save the gunfire for the big issues that really matter to you, like your choice of college major or who you date.

Also something to keep in mind: While you’re a student living under your parents’ roof, it’s harder to strike out and do what you want. That will come to an end. You’ll become an adult and no one will be responsible for your decisions except yourself.

“While you’re a student living under your parents’ roof, it’s harder to strike out and do what you want. That will come to an end. You’ll become an adult and no one will be responsible for your decisions except yourself.”

Ever’s developing relationship with her family is an important part of her emotional journey over the course of the novel. What role does Ever’s family play in her identity, and how does that role change? Can you talk about some of the choices you made as you crafted that relationship?
Another tough question! Ever’s family’s values deeply influence her identity. There are positive aspects to it. She has a strong moral compass that comes from them. They have high career ambitions for her, in contrast to Sophie’s family, and those ambitions also raised the bar for Ever’s goals in dancing and choreography.

I spent time considering how Ever’s choices might impact her parents as well. And they do—especially her dad. That wasn’t so much a choice I made, but as a matter of craft, needing to really try to follow their characters along their natural arcs.

I loved all of the secondary characters in Loveboat, Taipei; you gave so many of them such engaging and complex stories. Who was your favorite secondary character to create and write, and why?
It’s so hard to choose! I love them all for different reasons. I love Sophie’s generosity and misguided energies, and Xavier’s fight against his personal demons. I have a sequel in the works involving them. I also adore the Gang of Five. I love how they went from angry to taking back their own stereotypes. I envision them in a musical like a bad boy band, popping out at intervals to speak their truths. When I told my agent, Jo about this, she said, “They’re like the Greek chorus.” She was so right! 

As readers might expect from the title, Loveboat, Taipei’s protagonist, Ever, explores not just her identity and questions about her future, but also the possibility of romance. What do you hope readers gain from Ever’s exploration of this side of herself and from the different possibilities she explores?
I want readers to see Asian Americans holistically. We are deeply human, and love and romance is an important part of our lives. Ever is smart and accomplished, but she is also flawed and lonely, and she craves love and connection as much as anyone.

Many of the male-identifying characters in Loveboat, Taipei struggle with expectations of masculinity. Why did you choose to explore this theme?
It always pains me to see anyone questioning their attractiveness because they don’t fit Western norms of beauty. I had to come through my own journey here with all the ways I don’t line up myself.

In many ways, Asian American males have it harder than Asian American females. Author David Yoon has spoken of how struck he and his author wife, Nicola Yoon, were when they found out Asian males and African American females are the least swiped on dating apps. These small social pressures can really shape how a person views and values themselves, especially if they don’t realize it’s not about them, but part of a larger social construct. Just because a guy doesn’t fit the typical masculine mold doesn’t mean he isn’t attractive.

“I want readers to see Asian Americans holistically. We are deeply human, and love and romance is an important part of our lives.”

Loveboat, Taipei breaks down so many stereotypes about Asian Americans and the Asian American community so skillfully. Why was challenging these stereotypes important to you?
Stereotypes have real ramifications. Women who are expected to behave submissively can be mischaracterized as aggressive or out for themselves if they don’t, and that can really get in the way of their effectiveness running projects or taking on other leadership roles. Stereotypes prevent leaders from identifying great talent. They unfairly box people in. I work with many enlightened men and women in Silicon Valley, but as a society striving for true equality, we aren’t there yet.

I am especially passionate about broadening our conception of what leadership looks like. There are so many kinds of strengths. Ever has an eye for talent and calls it out. Sophie loves fashion and clothing and yes, she is boy crazy—and she also gets things done like no one else. Marc brings people together. They are all leaders in their own ways and it pays off when they give themselves permission to exercise those gifts.

For me, I had to make a choice whether to share my novel at work. I’ve always worked in a very male environment and I did make a deliberate choice to begin to share about my novel. One well-meaning woman privately ask me if letting people know I’d written a romance novel undercut my authority. I agreed it was a risk to share, but I also want to broaden what leadership looks like. If male leaders can rave about fantasy football and sports races, then I can talk about my forthcoming novel. And instead of undercutting my authority with men, I think it has done the opposite.

What was the most challenging part of writing Loveboat, Taipei? What was the most enjoyable?
Most challenging:

Early in my process, figuring out who was going on this journey. There were literally thousands of teens who could go on this trip. Who would be the main character? He or she would be changed by the experience—who needed to go on a trip like this?

I wasn’t sure. I wrote from several points of view until four characters began to emerge: Ever Wong from Ohio, who doesn’t know who she is. The Yale-bound prodigy Rick, who needs to blow off steam. Sophie who is looking for love and Xavier who is a player, but in all three cases, not for the obvious reasons.

Most enjoyable:

Stephanie Garber really challenged me to think deeply about the love triangles. It was fascinating for me to dig into what it was that connected Ever to each boy—and when I really understood why a certain connection worked and why another one would lead them in the wrong direction, it felt so incredibly satisfying and fun—was this really part of my job?

What did you learn from the writing and editorial process of Loveboat, Taipei that you’ll carry forward as you work on new books?
That I need to put in the time to develop all my characters. There’s no shortcutting it, at least not for me. Without intending to, I wrote the novel five times, from each of the main characters’ points of view, including Jenna. I eventually rewrote the entire book from Ever’s point of view, but one of the most common comments I’ve gotten is that my secondary characters are really well-rounded. So it paid off!

See my blog post on Cynthia Leitich Smith’s Cynsations for more on this.

Loveboat, Taipei is your debut novel. Although readers will be reading your answers after the book is published, you’re answering these questions before its publication. How do you feel? What are you excited about? Nervous about? What part of publishing a book are you most looking forward to?
I have been overwhelmed and blown away by the support for Loveboat, Taipei. So many people have offered to help. For a while, there were folks from the Asian American arts community emailing me all the ways I was behind in getting the word out. I was really stressed out at first, until it dawned on me they were tiger-momming me! Then I felt very loved.

I’m also a little nervous about reader reactions. I know people from so many different aspects of my life: young and old, American and foreign born, from the tech, legal and writing worlds, literary and commercial fiction lovers. Art and fiction are so taste-based, and I know that no one work will appeal to all people. I hope that people who don’t necessarily resonate with this story themselves understand that’s OK with me. I get it.

I’m most looking forward to the opportunity to speak with readers and to hear about their experiences. And I’m excited to find out where this journey is going!

Author photo by Olga Pichkova of IOPhotoStudio